.308 Win With 180 grain Loads For Bear Hunting

We all know that black bears over bait in many hunting camps in the N/E run on average from 150-200 lbs. I have been in camps where 300 lb plus bear were taken. Many outfitters in Maine and New Brunswick etc. show some 350-400 or sometimes even a bear pushing 500 lbs taken in their camps. One really never knows what might come into the bait or be seen in a spot and stalk or still hunting situation.

I sold my .350 Rem mag and my .338 Federal rifles this past year. My remaining choices in the stable are my .308 Win, my 45-70 and my .35 Rem for black bear over bait. I also have the .270 Win with quality 150 grain bullets. Given a choice however I would take the .308 with 180 grainers or the 45-70 with a heavier load. In the .308 I know that Federal loads the Nosler Partition in 180 grain persuasion in their high energy load. If that load (or a hand loaded equivalent shoots well in your rifle, I would consider that an ideal load). I DO NOT hand load anymore and factory ammo for the .350 and the .338 was expensive and hard to find.

If you hand load, other bullets to consider would be the Barnes TSX, Remington Core Lokt Ultra, Swift A-frame, the Accubond and perhaps the Hornady Interbond.

Looking strictly at black bear hunting, I see no reason why the standard 180 grain round nose or PSP 180 grain Corelokt would not fill the bill and put a black bear down with authority. There are some good quality premium factory loads in the 165 bullet weight also.

Any black bear up to 350 lbs on up to 500 or so should be easily taken with the .308 using the 180 grain Corelokt or the Federal load with 180 grain Nosler partitions.

I know folks who swear by the 180 grain loads in the .308 for everything including deer hunting, moose or black bear. Obviously for coyotes, one would choose a lighter bullet.

LINK and NOTES:

 Here is a link I came across which I believe adds to the discussion here:

http://www.huntingnut.com/index.php?name=news&file=article&sid=58

EXCERPTS:

Here is a chart of the muzzle velocities for each bullet for both cartridges, the difference between them (.30-06 minus .308) and the percentage of that difference:
Bullet weight .308 .30-06 Difference %
150 2919 2847 -72 ft/sec -2.5
165 2812 2803 -9 ft/sec -0.3
180 2623 2756 133 ft/sec 4.8

From the chart we can see that the average difference in velocities for the three bullets is 17 ft/sec, or 0.6%, in favor of the .30-06. Now don’t forget that these are average velocities. In a string of shots a cartridge/gun’s velocity can easily have a standard deviation of 1% or more. In other words the normal variations in loads result in a built-in error that pretty much means we can’t count on such a small difference to be meaningful. 

So, what does all this mean downrange? We’ll zero both guns at 200 yards and compare the bullet energy there. Let’s also take a look at what the bullets will be doing at 400 yards, which is a heck of a long shot for hunting. I used the “Point Blank” ballistics program to make the comparisons.

With the 150 grain bullet the .308 has 2093 foot-pounds of energy at 200 yards while the .30-06 has 1985 foot-pounds. Out at 400 yards the .308 will have dropped 20.9 inches, and still has 1512 foot-pounds. The .30-06 will have dropped 22.13 inches and maintains 1428 foot-pounds. The .308 shows 5.9% more energy at 400 yards.

Then with the 165 grain bullet 200 yards the .308 shows 2202 foot-pounds versus 2187 foot-pounds for the .30-06. At 400 yards the .308 drops 21.90 inches and has 1645 foot-pounds. The .30-06 drops 22.06 inches with 1633 foot-pounds left. At 400 yards the .308 has a tiny 0.7% energy advantage.

Finally we take the 180 grain bullet, which should give the biggest advantage to the .30-06. At the 200 yard mark the .308 will have an energy of 2143 foot-pounds and the .30-06 will have 2379 foot-pounds. The .30-06 has about 11% more energy. When we get out to 400 yards the .308 will be 24.64 inches low and still have 1647 foot-pounds while the .30-06 will be 22.10 inches low and still carry 1840 foot-pounds. That means that at 400 yards the .30-06 has an 11.7% advantage in energy.

(MY INPUT) on paragraph above:

(The 180 grain load in my discussion of bear hunting makes the most sense to me. RARELY in a spot and stalk and probably non-existent in a baited black bear situation does energy really enter into this. Bears in general are not impressed with energy or foot lbs. The larger the bear is the more sense this makes. For baited bear which is the thrust of my post which takes place 99% of the time under 75 yards and the lions share of that under 50 yards, energy is MOOT. I agree whole heartedly with the author of this link and information that one should PICK whichever caliber he or she likes best and go hunting. My experience has proven to me that in general terms the .308's I have owned have been more accurate that the 30:06's I have owned. Your experience may differ. In terms of ergonomics the .308 Savage Weather Warrior I own handles like an extension of my arm, it is lighter and deadly accurate. For me the .308 Win makes a lot of sense in all three standard bullet weights. The 150 grain along with  the 180 grain loads impact within an inch of each other at 75 yards and will allow me to hunt deer out to 200 yards plus with the 150's and use the same sight setting to go on a baited black bear hunt with the 180 grain loads.)

Now I’m sure that folks will look up their favorite of these two and “prove” that it is better in some manual or another. I looked in some other manuals too and found varying velocities. One thing I noticed in one manual was that, with 250 grain bullets (yes, that is two hundred and fifty grains), there was only 100 feet per sec difference in the velocities of the two cartridges. That particular manual doesn’t give any barrel lengths though.

Just for giggles I also looked at the .270 Winchester and .280 Remington loads in the same Speer manual. With a 22” barrel and a 150 grain bullet at 2907 feet per second the .270 has 2170 foot-pounds at 200 yards and 1648 foot-pounds at 400 yards, while dropping 19.98 inches. The .280, with a 24” barrel and a 145 grain bullet at 2975 feet per second, shows 2209 foot-pounds at 200 yards and 1689 foot-pounds at 400 yards, while dropping 18.83”. So, both of these cartridges “beat” the .30 caliber rounds in energy and trajectory.

When it’s all said and done does either the .308 or the .30-06 really have any ballistic advantage over the other? I’ll concede that an 11% difference in energy with the 180 grain bullet is an advantage but I wonder if a deer on the receiving end tell the difference between 1647 and 1840 foot-pounds of energy? Considering the overall differences and performance of both cartridges I’ll stick to my assertion that there is no SIGNIFICANT ballistic advantage with either cartridge. Now just pick which ever you like and enjoy shooting it!


Just as a side note, I would not hesitate to use the Marlin Model 1895 45-70 with factory loaded Hornady Lever Evolution 325 grain loads. I also have on hand a few boxes of Tim Sundles' favorite 405 grain JFN loads from Buffalo Bore and also some of their 350 grain Penetrator loads. Either one would do the job nicely and give one confidence to make the shot.

I would like to get back probably to Maine and try a baited black bear hunt there again or perhaps to New Brunswick, Canada perhaps this fall or next if I can.

Dan