RE-Thinking 777 Powder Charges For Muzzle Loading

I went to the range this morning with the TC Thumbhole stocked .50 cal Omega and finally had everything connect properly. The weather was in the low 70's, humidity was low, and NO discernible wind to deal with. I also had the rifle range to myself with NO distractions.

I only tried two different loads at 75 yards and 150 yards. The first load was 2 Pyrodex 50 grain pellets behind a 250 grain TC Shock Wave and using Winchester W209 primers. The second load was 95 grains of Triple 777 powder and the Cabelas 260 grain Dead Center saboted bullets and the same Win W209 primers.

At 75 yards, you could use either one as both shoot tight under 1 inch groups. The first load up was the 250 grain Shock Wave and I had two shots touching each other and the third one still within the 1 inch center to center group. I made one adjustment to the 1/4 min Mueller 2X7X32 circle RED DOT scope. I raised elevation exactly 4 clicks (see photo insert).

My second group also at 75 yards was a two shot group as I only had a very few dead center bullets left. That group was centered and approx 1/2 inch subtracting the bullet hole and point of impact was about 1 inch higher than the 250 Shock Wave (AFTER 4 click adjustment to scope was made)

The surprise came at 150 yards as the Triple 777, Dead center load printed a tighter group with less drop than the two Pyrodex pellets with the Shock Wave bullet.

After doing a lot of reading on EABCO's website concerning accuracy loads with Triple 777 and certain bullets in TC guns, along with doing some research on Precision Rifle's web site also concerning Triple 777 powder and PR's Dead Center bullet, I decided I would give the 777 powder another chance. Most of what I read indicated trying 100 grains or under as in 90 or 95 grains of triple 777 IF using 209 primers.

For Jeremy's TC  Omega, I am thinking of ordering up some more 260 grain Dead Center saboted loads from Precision Bullet as Cabela's NO longer carries that item.  Precision Rifle however DOES have these loads in packs for $14.50 each. SPECS: .50 cal / 260 grain Dead Center / .44 cal actual bullet Order# SKU0009

(4) packs including shipping would be $70.50 at the time of this BLOG.

LINK to Precision Rifle Dead Center bullets and website:

http://www.prbullet.com/shop/cart.php

Concerning 777 powder, I know guys who successfully use between 100 and 130 grains of fffg Triple 777 powder and claim it shoots well in their rifles. Speaking strictly from my own experience, by backing off to only 95 grains of 777 powder, my groups are less than half of what they were at the 100 -120 grain mark and the bullet drop at 150 for the 260 Dead Centers was approx 3 inches while the (2) Pyrodex pellets load with a 10 grain lighter Shock Wave was about 5 1/2 inches low and the group size was also larger.

Makes me wonder if I should RE-Think my position on the Vari-Flame adaptor for the TC breech plug guns to enable them to use small rifle primers instead of 209 shotgun primers. There is no trimming etc. involved and the concept of the Vari-Flame adaptors are to enable one to reduce the flame to the powder charge. I have NEVER felt that this was a worth while investment FOR ME, however it makes me wonder if Triple 777 powder charges could be increased into the 100 to 120 range and still be accurate at extended ranges by switching to the Vari Flame
 adaptor concept? I just Don't have the answer but it does raise the question for me.


SEE LINK below for Vari-Flame Adaptor kit ($24.00)

https://www.eabco.com/VariFlame25ACP.htm

I probably will not do that right now anyway as there are NO flies on the groups I got with 95 grains of Triple 777 and the 260 grain Dead Center load with W209 shotgun primers. It is food for thought though. ONE caution is that these adaptors are for LOOSE POWDER ONLY AND ARE NOT TO BE USED WITH PELLETS.

(ANOTHER) possible solution for tighter groups with hotter charges of 777 powder might be first to try the MMP SABOTS / BBSB .50 cal Ballistic Bridge Sub Base between the powder charge and the 260 grain saboted Dead Center bullet (OR any bullet combination that does not group well with hotter powder charges of Triple 777 or any other loose powder). The Sub Base is designed to prevent any blow by past the sabot and provide a cushion between the powder charge and the bullet. These can be purchased from MMP Sabots. Here is a link to the sub bases which at the time of this writing would run you $8.75 for a bag of 50 plus shipping to your location.

http://shopsite.domainhost.com/ss10.0/sc/order.cgi?rd=1&storeid=*22110aaa19fe03819c24100594e695b44ecbe8&sbid=SSMSB1341965166.11888&prevlocation=http://mmpsabots.domainhost.com/store/page1.html

(OR)

http://www.mmpsabots.com/recommend.html


This approach if it works would be less expensive than the "Vari-Flame" option listed above.


Dan


First photo is of the range showing target at 150 yards

75 yards / 250 Shock Wave w/2 Pyrodex pellets

Two shots at 75 yards with 260 Dead Centers and 95 grains 777 Powder

Left side top 3 shots are 260 Dead center with 95 grains 777 at 150 yards

3 horizontal shots holes are 150 yards with 2 Pyrodex pellets / 250 grain Shock Wave

UPDATE ON OMEGA 7/25/2012 AT THE RANGE

I went back to what had proven itself previously today. 83 degrees and very little wind to deal with. I stuffed the Omega with 110 grains of Pyrodex RS loose powder behind a 245 grain Barnes saboted spitzer HP ignited by Remington Kleen Bore 209 primers. First two shots at 100 yards were dead on and went 7/8 of an inch center to center. I raised the elevation 10 clicks on the 1/4 min Mueller red dot scope and fired two more shots at 150 yards which are also on the money. I did NOT go back and bother to shoot additional shots at 100 as it would now be 2.5 inches high at 100 yards and on the money at 150. Both shots went into a shade over two inches at 150 yards. I am MORE than happy with that set up for deer hunting. I have absolutely zero doubts about the integrity of the Barnes bullets and the 110 grain load of Pyrodex RS is pushing the Barnes bullet plenty fast for even 200 yard shots with a range finder reading first before you shoot. The Barnes bullets expand and hold together very well and of all the reviews I have read should give 100% penetration on deer sized animals as the rule. This makes a tracking job less likely and a quick humane kill very likely. ESTIMATED 200 yard drop with the 110 grain Pyrodex RS and the dead on hold at 150 (2.5 inches HIGH at 100 yards)  would be approximately 7-8 inches .