It seems at this time of year, I spend a lot of my spare time thinking about, reading about and shooting rifles as much as I can.
As mentioned in previous articles, I am personally NOT a big fan of the SST or Ballistic Tip format for deer bullets. I base that on an admittedly narrow minded singular occasion last year in which I had a one shot kill on an 8 point buck and NO tracking job.
Regarding the SST 150 grain .308 Win load I used, I will state it is one of the most accurate bullets to ever grace the chamber of my Savage Weather Warrior .308. That is why I choose to go with it and never doubted that given a steady rest and a few seconds to make a shot, I could place the bullet where I wanted to. I was not happy with the penetration and lack of a blood trail in dry leaves IF I had needed one.
To me, confidence is everything and I just don't have the confidence in this load and personally like an entry and exit hole and a blood trail IF I need one. That is why this year as mentioned in my last post, I am going to use my 45-70 with the 325 grain Hornady LeverEvolution loading. Doesn't make me right or wrong, but it does instill confidence when I touch off a round. I will limit myself to approximately 150 yards max (YES, I use a range finder when on stand). Very few of the deer i have taken were killed on the far side of 150 yards. MOST of the whitetails I have killed were taken with a 12 guage Ithaca Deer Slayer bored improved cylinder using foster slugs. That set up was pie plate accurate out to 100 yards. I then graduated to an Ithaca Deer Slayer Storm model just before Ithaca folded up and closed their NYS Plant. The factory did a trigger job on that gun for me and with the saboted slugs, my groups tightened considerably, and it added perhaps 50 yards to my outside limits.
A Little History on Ithaca Gun:
http://www.ithacagun.com/history.html
Other great loads I have not tried would include the Winchester E-Tip, the Hornady Super Performance GMX, the Federal premium Vital Shok Trophy among numerous others. New ones are coming on the market all the time and technology marches on.
My deer hunting these days is pretty much confined to the N/E farm land and mixed hardwoods etc.
The Win PP and the Rem Core Lokts have been around a long time and have always done a great job on whitetails. Ammunition is also getting expensive for us that do not load our own any more. I used to years ago and simply don't have the equipment or the time to do so anymore.
I grew up working on a dairy farm up until the time I went into the Navy at 17 back in 1965. A favorite saying when dealing with farm equipment, automobiles etc. was, "If it ain't broke, don't FIX IT".
I have had pretty good success applying that to hunting also.
Dan
Showing posts with label Deer Bullets. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Deer Bullets. Show all posts
Sunday, September 28, 2014
Saturday, September 27, 2014
Deer Season 2014
The older I get, for some reason the faster time seems to go by. When you are young and there was potentially so much time in front of you, it didn't seem to matter.
In any event as I type this, bow season in NYS opens up Oct 1st this year which is next Wednesday. I have come out of retirement and am working in the insurance business again doing mostly Final Expense Senior Life and Medicare Advantage Plans and Supplements. For that reason my bow season will likely be limited to weekends in October.
I wanted to jot down a few thoughts on gun season this year. Last year on opening day of gun I took a decent 8 point buck with the .308 Winchester using a 150 grain SST. You can read the article as to my thoughts on the SST load for whitetails. I harvested the buck on the spot and it is hard to argue with success. On the other hand if the buck had not expired where he stood the blood trail would have been dismal at best in dry leaves. I sighted in the Ruger .270 Win with 150 grain Winchester Power Points this year and the Savage Weather Warrior w/accu-trigger with 150 grain Win PP also. That being said, the upcoming season this year, I have my Marlin model 1895 45-70 set about 1.5 inches high at 75 yards and dead center with the Hornady 325 grain Lever Evolution loads which allows me a dead on chest hold out to 150 yards or so. I have wanted to take a whitetail for some time with the 45-70 and recently I thought to myself, "Dan, if you are serious about taking any whitetails with the 45-70, then you have to carry it with you and LEAVE the .308, .270 Win etc. at home."
Good advice, so I am going to listen to myself, carry the 45-70 with the Wild West Trigger installed and see if I can't make it happen. Where I hunt, 200 yard shots do exist, however I do not go looking for them. 80% of the deer I have killed have been under 100 yards with the remaining 20% under 150. With a 325 grain .45 caliber load, I do not need to worry about entrance and exit holes and visible blood trails either. If the 325 grain load is in the vitals I should not have to worry about a blood trail anyway.
I have always been a "Gun Nut" since I was around 7 years old and got my first Red Ryder lever action BB gun. I graduated to a break action .117 cal pellet rifle to a .22 LR, .22 Win Mag, .222 Sako etc. etc. I have always had a love for shooting, hunting and the outdoors and I pray I never lose the desire or the opportunity.
Here is an excerpt from last years deer post and a link:
http://gunsandoptics.blogspot.com/2013/10/deer-season-2013-nys.html
LAST YEAR'S THOUGHTS ON THE 150 GRAIN SST LOAD USED TO TAKE THE 8 POINT:
http://gunsandoptics.blogspot.com/search/label/Deer%20Bullets
EXCERPT from previous post:
Got by on about 4 hours sleep last night and got up to Tim's and on our stands on time. Tim took a nice 9 point buck before 8 AM. I looked for the elusive 11 point buck mentioned in the stories above today, however he remained elusive. I did manage to take a nice 8 point around 2:15 PM this afternoon down below Tim's pond. I had it in my head all week to hunt down below the pond today and it proves that hunches sometimes pay off. I saw a total of 10 deer today, most of which were does and a couple of smaller bucks.
Tim took his 9 point from his tree stand using his Ruger Model 77 .300 Win Mag with hand loads. I shot the 8 point with the Hornady 150 Grain SST load out of my Savage Weather Warrior .308 Win.
In any event as I type this, bow season in NYS opens up Oct 1st this year which is next Wednesday. I have come out of retirement and am working in the insurance business again doing mostly Final Expense Senior Life and Medicare Advantage Plans and Supplements. For that reason my bow season will likely be limited to weekends in October.
I wanted to jot down a few thoughts on gun season this year. Last year on opening day of gun I took a decent 8 point buck with the .308 Winchester using a 150 grain SST. You can read the article as to my thoughts on the SST load for whitetails. I harvested the buck on the spot and it is hard to argue with success. On the other hand if the buck had not expired where he stood the blood trail would have been dismal at best in dry leaves. I sighted in the Ruger .270 Win with 150 grain Winchester Power Points this year and the Savage Weather Warrior w/accu-trigger with 150 grain Win PP also. That being said, the upcoming season this year, I have my Marlin model 1895 45-70 set about 1.5 inches high at 75 yards and dead center with the Hornady 325 grain Lever Evolution loads which allows me a dead on chest hold out to 150 yards or so. I have wanted to take a whitetail for some time with the 45-70 and recently I thought to myself, "Dan, if you are serious about taking any whitetails with the 45-70, then you have to carry it with you and LEAVE the .308, .270 Win etc. at home."
Good advice, so I am going to listen to myself, carry the 45-70 with the Wild West Trigger installed and see if I can't make it happen. Where I hunt, 200 yard shots do exist, however I do not go looking for them. 80% of the deer I have killed have been under 100 yards with the remaining 20% under 150. With a 325 grain .45 caliber load, I do not need to worry about entrance and exit holes and visible blood trails either. If the 325 grain load is in the vitals I should not have to worry about a blood trail anyway.
I have always been a "Gun Nut" since I was around 7 years old and got my first Red Ryder lever action BB gun. I graduated to a break action .117 cal pellet rifle to a .22 LR, .22 Win Mag, .222 Sako etc. etc. I have always had a love for shooting, hunting and the outdoors and I pray I never lose the desire or the opportunity.
Here is an excerpt from last years deer post and a link:
http://gunsandoptics.blogspot.com/2013/10/deer-season-2013-nys.html
LAST YEAR'S THOUGHTS ON THE 150 GRAIN SST LOAD USED TO TAKE THE 8 POINT:
http://gunsandoptics.blogspot.com/search/label/Deer%20Bullets
EXCERPT from previous post:
Got by on about 4 hours sleep last night and got up to Tim's and on our stands on time. Tim took a nice 9 point buck before 8 AM. I looked for the elusive 11 point buck mentioned in the stories above today, however he remained elusive. I did manage to take a nice 8 point around 2:15 PM this afternoon down below Tim's pond. I had it in my head all week to hunt down below the pond today and it proves that hunches sometimes pay off. I saw a total of 10 deer today, most of which were does and a couple of smaller bucks.
Tim took his 9 point from his tree stand using his Ruger Model 77 .300 Win Mag with hand loads. I shot the 8 point with the Hornady 150 Grain SST load out of my Savage Weather Warrior .308 Win.
Tuesday, November 19, 2013
Deer Bullets?
I was fortunate this year in taking a decent 8 point buck around 2PM opening day here in NY. It certainly wasn't my biggest buck, however it was not my smallest either. I was just glad to get out into the woods for gun season as I missed all of bow season this year due to heart surgery in July. Saturday was a phenomenal day weather wise and I ended up seeing a total of ten deer. I took the 8 pointer at approx 125 yards with my .308 Win using Hornady 150 grain interlock SST factory loads. Despite my success and bringing the deer home with me, I will likely NOT use that particular load again for deer. WHY? NO apparent exit hole and very little external blood. Fortunately the deer expired on the spot so no trailing needed and therefore no blood trail was not a problem
What bothered me is the what if's? What if the deer had stayed on his feet and made it out of sight. there was no snow on the ground and plenty of leaf cover and without any blood trail I likely may not have recovered the deer. The internal damage in the chest cavity was excessive which is why I presume the deer went down quickly. I not only didn't have an exit hole (UNLESS the hole in the right hip was an exit hole?).......I could not find an entrance hole either. Dead deer do not lie, so I am not losing sleep over it. I just made a mental note of it for future reference. I realize reading the forums that a lot of guys swear by the SST and Ballistic Tip format in a deer bullet. I also subscribe to and fully understand that deer are NOT hard to kill and hit properly are rather fragile animals. They are not covered with thick hides and a layer of fat combined with heavy shoulder bones etc. like a black bear would be. None-the-less, I like exit holes and a blood trail to follow if necessary. The sad part is that they are scary accurate and consistent and shoot well under an inch out to 150 yards which covers 95% of deer hunting where I hunt.
Since my Savage Weather Warrior accu-trigger .308 Win also shoots out to that same distance with MOA accuracy the Federal 150 grain Power Shok and the Winchester 150 grain PP and under 2 inches with the Remington 180 grain soft point Core lokt, I will LIKELY choose one of those loads next time around.
I will save the SST loads for coyotes or woodchucks etc. For me confidence in your load and ability to put it where you want it counts for a lot. For follow up shots on a moving deer that you know you have already hit (wounded), I prefer a bigger hole and an exit hole. I have read enough comments on shooting forums to realize there are quite a few comments on the lack of exit holes with the Hornady SST format. I also realize a dead deer, is a dead deer is a dead deer. The funny thing is I LOVE the Hornady 250 grain shock wave loads for my TC Encore 209/50. They too are very accurate and thus far have left both an entrance and exit hole. I think in part it is because they are a 100 grains heavier bullet and the velocity is less than the .308 Win. I have found the Shock wave bullets and the SST load in a ML shoot to the same point of aim.
Doesn't make me wrong for switching back to Win or Federal or Remington loads, and doesn't make anyone else wrong for sticking with the SST loads for deer in their own 30:06 or .308 or .270 etc.
It just makes me comfortable and gives me confidence and that is 80% of the battle.
Here are a couple of photos from an earlier post showing (3) different soft point loads in my .308 Win. at 75 yards. Results at 150 yards are very similar. Any of these three loads will leave an entrance and exist hole and therefore a better blood trail IF needed.
Dan
UPDATE ON MY OPENING DAY 8 POINT:
I picked up my venison from the processing place today and spoke with the butcher. He indicated that the wound in the right hip was DEFINITELY AN EXIT hole and not an entrance hole which confirms my last thought on the subject. I APPARENTLY missed shots #(1) and #(3) and the only standing still shot I had entered in through the neck or brisket area somewhere and because of the bucks body angle and being down hill from my position exited out the right hip without hitting bone. He was looking up at me through the branches trying to determine where the first shot had come from.
That somewhat restores my faith in Hornady's Interlock 150 grain SST .308 bullet, however next year, I will still likely go back to either the Federal 150 grain Power Shok or the Winchester 150 grain PP load. To be completely fair to Hornady's SST load, it provided more penetration than I at first thought, however the butcher still did not find the entrance hole. It was somewhere in the brisket/chest area and apparently did not hit any bones going in or out. As previously mentioned it did turn the chest cavity inside to mush more or less. The deer dropped very quickly and did not suffer which is important to me.
Again in favor of the SST load it was extremely accurate and effective as I brought the deer home with me.
Dan
What bothered me is the what if's? What if the deer had stayed on his feet and made it out of sight. there was no snow on the ground and plenty of leaf cover and without any blood trail I likely may not have recovered the deer. The internal damage in the chest cavity was excessive which is why I presume the deer went down quickly. I not only didn't have an exit hole (UNLESS the hole in the right hip was an exit hole?).......I could not find an entrance hole either. Dead deer do not lie, so I am not losing sleep over it. I just made a mental note of it for future reference. I realize reading the forums that a lot of guys swear by the SST and Ballistic Tip format in a deer bullet. I also subscribe to and fully understand that deer are NOT hard to kill and hit properly are rather fragile animals. They are not covered with thick hides and a layer of fat combined with heavy shoulder bones etc. like a black bear would be. None-the-less, I like exit holes and a blood trail to follow if necessary. The sad part is that they are scary accurate and consistent and shoot well under an inch out to 150 yards which covers 95% of deer hunting where I hunt.
Since my Savage Weather Warrior accu-trigger .308 Win also shoots out to that same distance with MOA accuracy the Federal 150 grain Power Shok and the Winchester 150 grain PP and under 2 inches with the Remington 180 grain soft point Core lokt, I will LIKELY choose one of those loads next time around.
I will save the SST loads for coyotes or woodchucks etc. For me confidence in your load and ability to put it where you want it counts for a lot. For follow up shots on a moving deer that you know you have already hit (wounded), I prefer a bigger hole and an exit hole. I have read enough comments on shooting forums to realize there are quite a few comments on the lack of exit holes with the Hornady SST format. I also realize a dead deer, is a dead deer is a dead deer. The funny thing is I LOVE the Hornady 250 grain shock wave loads for my TC Encore 209/50. They too are very accurate and thus far have left both an entrance and exit hole. I think in part it is because they are a 100 grains heavier bullet and the velocity is less than the .308 Win. I have found the Shock wave bullets and the SST load in a ML shoot to the same point of aim.
Doesn't make me wrong for switching back to Win or Federal or Remington loads, and doesn't make anyone else wrong for sticking with the SST loads for deer in their own 30:06 or .308 or .270 etc.
It just makes me comfortable and gives me confidence and that is 80% of the battle.
Here are a couple of photos from an earlier post showing (3) different soft point loads in my .308 Win. at 75 yards. Results at 150 yards are very similar. Any of these three loads will leave an entrance and exist hole and therefore a better blood trail IF needed.
Dan
TC Encore 209/50 earlier photo showing Shock wave load
I picked up my venison from the processing place today and spoke with the butcher. He indicated that the wound in the right hip was DEFINITELY AN EXIT hole and not an entrance hole which confirms my last thought on the subject. I APPARENTLY missed shots #(1) and #(3) and the only standing still shot I had entered in through the neck or brisket area somewhere and because of the bucks body angle and being down hill from my position exited out the right hip without hitting bone. He was looking up at me through the branches trying to determine where the first shot had come from.
That somewhat restores my faith in Hornady's Interlock 150 grain SST .308 bullet, however next year, I will still likely go back to either the Federal 150 grain Power Shok or the Winchester 150 grain PP load. To be completely fair to Hornady's SST load, it provided more penetration than I at first thought, however the butcher still did not find the entrance hole. It was somewhere in the brisket/chest area and apparently did not hit any bones going in or out. As previously mentioned it did turn the chest cavity inside to mush more or less. The deer dropped very quickly and did not suffer which is important to me.
Again in favor of the SST load it was extremely accurate and effective as I brought the deer home with me.
Dan
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